Indigenous people?

I came across a couple of incredible blog posts, one is taking a deeper look at the science in the documentary, “Forks over Knives” and how opponents tend to cherry pick information from unreliable sources. The second blog post is associating plant based diets in regards to health among native people, and meat based diets with a multitude of illnesses among native populations. It is full of references and studies. Totally incredible.

1. The blog is http://healthylongevity.blogspot.com/2012/08/forks-over-knives-and-healthy-longevity_17.html

2. http://healthylongevity.blogspot.com/2012/11/traditional-diets-in-asia-pacific-and.html

 

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The rest of this page are quotes collected from a multitude of people below:

I retrieved the following off a discussion board, someone had asked about the connection Native Americans had to the land, and how they killed animals– and whether that was hypocritical even though they seemed to be very connected to the earth.  The following was one response.
Quote Atticus
The person brought up native Americans and how connected and grateful they were to the earth and all its creatures, yet they ate meat and hunted for their various needs.

If I would kill and eat you, do you think anyone who would say that I were connected and grateful to you/respected you? The Native Americans had a lot of rituals and ceremonies claiming that they had respect for other creatures, but unlike some Eastern ethnic groups/religions, who actually practiced what they preached, and did not kill animals for food, many of the Native Americans said one thing but lived in a way that clearly showed that they did not respect other living beings’ right to live. The way Native Americans treated animals (and in many cases, humans) were more barbarian than lots of other ethnic groups we know of. Ie. they didn’t just kill their enemies, they chopped their heads off afterwards and put it on exhibition, so to speak.

To write, say or sing that you you respect another being’s right to live doesn’t mean that you actually do it. If I respect you, I simply don’t kill and eat you. If I kill you, I don’t respect that you, and not I, should decide wether you should die or not. If you have decided that you want to live, and I kill you, I don’t respect you, neither am I deeply connected to you, because if I were, I wouldn’t end your life. 

All the Western cultures that has attacked, killed and exploited so called primitive cultures in other parts of the world throughout history has done it in the name of God their own religion/God. Prayers and religious ceremonies are often used in association with wars/killing of others, in all cultures, and Native Americans are no exception. 

I have the feeling that some brutal warrior tribes – in all cultures – ‘insert’ some rituals and ceremonies into their brutal actions, only as an attempt to try to hide how brutal their actions are, because deep down they know that what they do are against their own ethics. Maybe they’re only trying to fool themselves, but manage to fool others as well. 

If you see a person or animal and kill him to satisfy your need for food or other products, you look at this creature as a ‘product’, just like factory farmers look at ‘their’ animals. Or – you look at it as a living creature and respect it until you are hungry or want it’s body parts for other purposes, then that creature is just a ‘product’. 

If a potential murderer see a rich man and kill him because he needs his money, he wouldn’t get a way with explaining that the guy he killed didn’t grow up in a ‘human factory’, or by telling the court that he lived a free life until he was shot. When it comes to humans, we know that killing is killing, and no person, Native American or not, would get away with theories about respecting the person, being connected with him or which rituals he had performed before he shot him. IMO, it’s only habitual thinking that causes some humans to think that an Native American who kills an animal for food is doing something less unethical than a murderer who kills another human being for money, food or other selfish reasons.

— Posted by Korn on http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?5614-quot-We-have-great-respect-for-the-animals-we-kill-quot

ON CULTURE and TRADITION

Here is a comment posted on FB by Ashok:

If the argument is extended we do kill millions of insects, Mosquitos and bacteria. They too are lives not mention the life of veggies. I guess being vegetarian or not is a debate going on ever since humans started thinking. The history shows that humans and their predecessors were mostly meat eating.

Response by Esther:

Actually Ashok, there is limited information about what our ancestors actually ate, a lot of it is still being researched and debated. An interesting tedx talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMOjVYgYaG8

And even if it has been largely eaten in the past few hundred years, it doesn’t necessarily mean that, that is the most suited diet for us (and I’m not saying that it isn’t, humans are still learning and honestly mainstream science is pretty much in an infancy stage when it comes to nutrition–there is so much that we really still don’t understand). My point is, just because something has been done, for an amount of time, doesn’t make it necessarily wise. Look at the amount of time that we have eaten packaged foods full of preservatives. With increasing technology and busier schedules, it seems that these foods are becoming more common. In one hundred years, (if humanity survives that long with our current disconnect from natural systems) we might come to believe that packaged foods are a vital source of existence, or we might put it on the food guide pyramid, not being able to remember when we ate something that didn’t become processed in a factory before it reached our plate. There was a time when cooking foods were much less common and perhaps did not even take place. Today there is a fear of many foods when they are not cooked, even if they are merely raw vegetables. Also your remark on death, is accurate, of course, destruction of bacteria (as well as creation) goes on in our gut all of the time, and insects are much smaller than us and it would be unlikely that we would be able to avoid stepping on one ever in our lifetime. But these are things that are unavoidable. If a murderer justifies killing because death is inevitable, he would still be trialed and convicted. It’s not about preventing the death of every life form on earth, which wouldn’t actually even be allowing yourself to live, but it’s about being present and aware of our deliberate actions or inactions we take on a regular basis that may cause otherwise unnecessary suffering to another being. There is a very immense difference between choosing ‘death’ and being a part of life where accidents and energy exchanges happen at all times in all forms. Do we perpetuate suffering through our actions (or inactions), or do we make choices that support loving kindness in all of its forms? These can be very difficult questions to ask, because every time we purchase an item, those items don’t come along with the story of how they were made. And our society has become complacent and we have begun to trust that behind the scenes all is beautiful, therefore we are all innocent loving beings, only contributing to society by being involved and living up to the ‘standard’ acceptable morality. These ideas are exactly what we need to question. We need to question everything we think we know about how the world works, in order to actually create the kind of world that all of us can be utterly proud to live in. It starts with one step, one thought, one question, one realization, one action. That one action has and always will be ever revolutionizing the world.

 

Also related:

but we are omnivorous  https://veganrebuttals.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/but-we-are-omnivorous/

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