but there are no tribes of people who have subsisted on veganism for long periods of time, how do we know it’s healthy?

Actually there are…



But humans are at the center of the universe

It’s unfortunate but I see this all of the time. People claiming that human beings are the apex of all of creation.

So ultimately we humans believe that animals are resources, how is it then, that most find animal factory farming monstrous then?

Some claim humans have been using animals since the beginning of time, and why should we ever think about changing?

Do you really believe that if we have always used animals for, food, shelter, clothing, that that justifies it as sane or good? In the face currently of ecological collapse on multiple fronts –oceanic and all lands?

Humans have always been at war with one another since as long as we are aware of, does that make war good or sane?

Humans have traditionally had much lower life spans, about half of what we have today, does that make shorter life spans sane or good?

Today, our extent to animal manipulation is much more than it ever has been, are you then against this? Animal testing for pharmaceuticals, make-up, house hold products, random experimental designs for ‘science’.

To what extent do you believe animals more resemble plants or rocks than they do humans? To what extent do you believe that animals have no capacity to care for themselves or others or their life? To what extent are Humans more aware, more conscious, more able than animals?

We just happen to be really good with tools, apart from that, I only actually see animals being often times, much more intelligent than us. We are the only species, who has managed to shift the ecosystem so much, that not only are we annihilating our own species, but we are bringing just about every other species down with us. If that isn’t a huge failure of intelligence, I’m not sure what is.

Just because something is weaker than us, I’m not sure how that justifies us, making full use of it. It’s the patriarchal mindset, use what can be used for your own means. Use other races for slaves, because you can, use woman and children for sex and labor without their permission because you can. Use animals for all of your needs, because you can. Use the world and its resources for your needs in excess because you can, Take from the poor, the sick, the helpless and the weak, because they are vulnerable, and it will keep you in power.

This is the mindset of many of the dominant cultures of the world today, They have hidden the messages so cleverly, yet they are still so bold and vibrant since, these are the actions unfortunately much more common among humans than the choice of compassion on this earth.

Our societies have successfully taught humans that this is the normal way, the only way, to gain strength, to gain fortune.

However, what is true compassion, what does living in an ecosphere mean. What is true connection. We live in a world that hardly anyone dare enter, or attempt to understand. We are trapped in the mundane everyday existence of cleaning, working, driving, using our gadgets, absorbing ourselves in made up stories projected onto screens. We are numb. Yet the mystery of the universe, the divine in all creation is here, waiting to be discovered in the minute occurrences that we too often ignore on a daily basis.

Yet, if we choose to listen, if we choose to be present, we can find this unshakable propensity of wisdom, in nature, we are not limited to the spoken words of humans throughout the ages, of course they would be telling the story with the creature of their choice (their race, gender and religion of human) in the center, but that hardly is anything but a boastful lie, to imagine the world as only full to the extent of that one component. Humans can’t exist without the functions of the ecosystem on planet earth, we are hardly important.

We in fact, are so weak, so fragile, so small in the grand scheme of things. To believe humans are at the center of the stage above and beyond all other life. It’s the same mindset as the belief that the Sun rotated around the Earth, claiming everything is only about us. So arrogant, so boastful, so untrue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfP-XBUbMvs

But where does it say that spiritually it’s the best thing to do?

But for clarity: where is it stated that veganism is The Way for humanity? Throughout ages omnivorous people have had great impact on others as spiritual and non-spiritual leaders. As I remember a reading Edgar Cayce gave to a vegetarian woman, she was told by the higher self that “she should keep being vegetarian if her soul asked her, however, being vegetarian is not a spiritual requirement”. ——

This is how I responded, I thought this question was interesting because they were wanting examples of spiritual people who suggested this kind of lifestyle. Which could essentially be anyone. I’ve never actually been asked this question before it almost rather through me off guard.. like oh wait, you don’t want some heavy science journal article?? :

well where is stated that meat eating is the way for humanity? Is it possible that we’ve gotten into a habit that is actually only causing us more harm? There’s also a lot of spiritual documents that do advocate eating plants only. Dr. Gabriel Cousens has studied Essene literature extensively and has been living off of raw foods for over 30 years. His youthful appearance in his 70’s, I think speaks to the strength of eating this way. Maybe there was a time that eating meat made sense for humans. And it’s possible that in some locations among some people, it also makes the most sense, perhaps for inuits in Alaska.. I’m giving an example. Although it’s been documented that even for these people there are health costs associated with this very high meat intake. In terms of spirituality, there are several individuals who do support being vegan in terms of mind and body cleanliness. In doing so you are not contributing to the industrialized suffering of millions of animals, in addition to contribution to the greatest greenhouse gas source, biggest water pollutor, and biggest reason why we are losing our rainforests. Again, the best, easiest source to learn more about this is Cowspiracy: The Sustainability Secret. I’ve been studying this stuff for years, so I was very familiar with it, however this documentary visually makes it very easy to follow and see all the first hand literature and interviews that goes into these facts. But yes, so to name a few.. http://www.erinpavlina.com/…/the-connection-between…/ and http://www.serv-online.org/Meria-Heller.htm and http://thethinkingvegan.com/…/veganism-and-spirituality/ Personally if there is a spiritual teacher who is not vegan. I can’t take them seriously. If Jesus himself came back to planet earth and told people that eating small amounts of meat was okay, I would turn and walk away. For me there is just no justification on a spiritual level that makes it okay, when as a species we can more than thrive on plants alone. There’s a lot of ways we can screw it up. by not getting enough greens or overconsuming fats, sugars, processed foods… or just not enough in general. But I’ve done enough research to know that it’s more than just possible. It saves lives. not only the lives of the animals and the health of the planet, but I’ve seen tumors disapear before my eyes, on ppl taking these foods seriously, I’ve seen my own pre-cancerous cells magically erase themselves from my own lab results after following these practices. I’ve seen my father in law, reduce his medicine by more than half, as a diabetic switching to this lifestyle. I mean I can go on. the miracles are endless. We just have to believe, and let go of this paradigm we’ve been trapped under for so long.

But we are omnivorous…

“We are omnivorous — our teeth are adapted to both vegetables and meat, and our jaw is more adapted to chewing meat than gorilla jaws are.  It is true that many omnivores eat very little meat, but humans have been cooking food for at least 250,000 years, and we have been using bows to hunt for at least 18,000 years. There were thousands of hunter-gatherer societies where hunting was a major source of calories before the rise of Western civilization.  Eskimo’s, Inuits, and all other Arctic tribes subsisted on primarily meat, getting their vitamin C from whale blubber. The tribes of North America were largely hunters, especially in the plains and mountains where there were buffalo.  There is evidence that mammoths and other large animals were hunted (admittedly over-hunted) around the world over 10,000 years ago. The Batek of Malaysia, the Pygmies of the Congo, the Mongolians, and most other societies I have researched in my anthropological studies have subsisted largely on meat-based calories.”

The interesting thing about studying these primitive societies, is that the ones who often ate mostly meat seem to be also linked with the shortest life span and the same health problems. Eskimos regularly live to about the age of 40. Of course with modern medicine, we aren’t quite in the same situation as Eskimos, as now we have treatments for a lot of the problems meat can cause. Like high cholesterol and the like.  However, what I do find interesting is the large amount of people who have reversed many illnesses through largely well-balanced plant based diets. One of my favorite books on long living groups of indigenous people is a “healthy at a 100” by John Robins.
we have spent a considerable amount of time as species eating cooked foods and the like and developing all sorts adaptations to the foods we eat.  But is it possible that there is a more efficient way of eating for our bodies?  I think the most interesting argument I’ve seen showing that our bodies are more alike that of a mostly vegetarian omnivore, are the ones looking at our digestive system. Since we have a long gut, like other primates, it allows for us to obtain the nutrients from plants, yet from meat and milk tend to go bad through this system, and our bodies need to create more acidity in order to buffer the microorganisms from getting us sick. Excess acidity in our bodies lead to things like heart burn, as well as actually leaching calcium from our bones.  Milk isn’t actually a good source of calcium– in fact its been shown the opposite, which is why the countries with the highest milk consumption also have the highest osteoporosis rates.  And the countries which have the highest consumption of green foods for the calcium source with little to no diary — most asian countries minus India, have little to no osteoporosis issues.  (An interesting study done on animal protein and cancer called the china study — is one of the biggest nutritional studies ever done and they found some really interesting correlations)

Native populations, diet and the correlation to disease and cancer

I came across a couple of incredible blog posts, one is taking a deeper look at the science in the documentary, “Forks over Knives” and how opponents tend to cherry pick information from unreliable sources. The second blog post is associating plant based diets in regards to health among native people, and meat based diets with a multitude of illnesses among native populations. It is full of references and studies. Totally incredible.

1. The blog is http://healthylongevity.blogspot.com/2012/08/forks-over-knives-and-healthy-longevity_17.html

2. http://healthylongevity.blogspot.com/2012/11/traditional-diets-in-asia-pacific-and.html