But vitamin B12 is only found in animal products!

Bacteria are not classified scientifically as animals. Hence it is a scientific inaccuracy to say that B12 is an animal product. In our modern world, yes we are super hygienic and sometimes getting that bacteria source needs to be paid attention to. If the only way to get a certain vitamin naturally was from kicking a small child would you do it, or would take a supplement so you didn’t have to kick the small child? This of course isn’t the case with veganism, because we can actually get vitamin b12 naturally without supplements, but if it’s that much of a concern for vitb12, supplements are very easy to get. It’s also a vitamin that stores very well in the body over time. They say that deficiencies often don’t even begin to develop until after 5 years. And some evidence actually questions our need for this vitamin altogether. Check it out. It’s all interesting stuff. I personally take a b12 supplement because it’s easy and actually tastes good — i get the chewable kind

http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/12/vitamin-b12-and-human-nutritional.html

http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/why-we-should-not-eat-meat/the-vitamin-b12-hoax.html

 

Lactose intolerance isn’t common, milking cows is good for them, and veggies are bad

“Only 2% of the western population is lactose intolerant. Milking the cows actually helps the cow to stay healthy. The majority of GMO products actually are the vegetables, replacing the source of calcium with vegetables won’t make it GMO free.”
The above passage was a comment made on fb, I responded what is found below…
Actually, “Approximately 65 percent of the human population has a reduced ability to digest lactose after infancy. Lactose intolerance in adulthood is most prevalent in people of East Asian descent, affecting more than 90 percent of adults in some of these communities.
” — http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/lactose-intolerance Milking the cows can only help the cow ‘stay healthy’ if the cow has been bred in a way to have unnaturally large utters and/ or is injected with hormones to have larger utters, and or must also have the following conditions met, the cow has been, 1)impregnated 2) and baby has been taken away. Under all of these circumstances the cow could be in distress with large utters, and no calf to relieve her. In this situation it may make sense to help ‘relieve’ the cow of her milk. However, this is an entirely man made situation. You would never make the same argument for a human, claiming that humans needed to be milked by anyone other than their baby because it ‘kept them healthy’ this is not factual. The majority of GMO’s are actually cotton, corn and soybeans. These are the items we need in the largest quantity hence make sense for companies to gain profit off of making GMO’s, there are some GMOS also among vegetables and fruits, but that can all be avoided if buying organic. Ultimately those who eat the most corn and soy often happen to be animals that we consume or consume their byproducts. So herbicides and pesticides that are within these plants, actually become that much more concentrated in the animal itself. For example it takes about 20 lbs of plant food to produce 1lb of cow flesh. https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=29892 That means that whatever pesticides are in that 20lbs of plant food, is now concentrated in that 1lb of animal flesh. So to say that having milk is better than vegetables is not accurate in terms of reducing your toxin intake. Especially in places for example in India where there is little to no regulation on what goes into milk to preserve it. It is often trucked for hours in the hot sun, and in order for it not to go bad, it’s a common for farmers to pour bleach in the milk. There have been plenty of articles to come out explaining all of the contaminants found in milk. In addition, vegetables contain many micronutrients, and antioxidants that help protect the body’s immune system against bacteria and other contaminants. Milk is largely devoid of these beneficial qualities. It also has too much protein to be considered a good source of calcium since, it takes large quantities of calcium to digest protein. http://saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/ your best source of calcium actually is dark leafy greens.

But humans are at the center of the universe

It’s unfortunate but I see this all of the time. People claiming that human beings are the apex of all of creation.

So ultimately we humans believe that animals are resources, how is it then, that most find animal factory farming monstrous then?

Some claim humans have been using animals since the beginning of time, and why should we ever think about changing?

Do you really believe that if we have always used animals for, food, shelter, clothing, that that justifies it as sane or good? In the face currently of ecological collapse on multiple fronts –oceanic and all lands?

Humans have always been at war with one another since as long as we are aware of, does that make war good or sane?

Humans have traditionally had much lower life spans, about half of what we have today, does that make shorter life spans sane or good?

Today, our extent to animal manipulation is much more than it ever has been, are you then against this? Animal testing for pharmaceuticals, make-up, house hold products, random experimental designs for ‘science’.

To what extent do you believe animals more resemble plants or rocks than they do humans? To what extent do you believe that animals have no capacity to care for themselves or others or their life? To what extent are Humans more aware, more conscious, more able than animals?

We just happen to be really good with tools, apart from that, I only actually see animals being often times, much more intelligent than us. We are the only species, who has managed to shift the ecosystem so much, that not only are we annihilating our own species, but we are bringing just about every other species down with us. If that isn’t a huge failure of intelligence, I’m not sure what is.

Just because something is weaker than us, I’m not sure how that justifies us, making full use of it. It’s the patriarchal mindset, use what can be used for your own means. Use other races for slaves, because you can, use woman and children for sex and labor without their permission because you can. Use animals for all of your needs, because you can. Use the world and its resources for your needs in excess because you can, Take from the poor, the sick, the helpless and the weak, because they are vulnerable, and it will keep you in power.

This is the mindset of many of the dominant cultures of the world today, They have hidden the messages so cleverly, yet they are still so bold and vibrant since, these are the actions unfortunately much more common among humans than the choice of compassion on this earth.

Our societies have successfully taught humans that this is the normal way, the only way, to gain strength, to gain fortune.

However, what is true compassion, what does living in an ecosphere mean. What is true connection. We live in a world that hardly anyone dare enter, or attempt to understand. We are trapped in the mundane everyday existence of cleaning, working, driving, using our gadgets, absorbing ourselves in made up stories projected onto screens. We are numb. Yet the mystery of the universe, the divine in all creation is here, waiting to be discovered in the minute occurrences that we too often ignore on a daily basis.

Yet, if we choose to listen, if we choose to be present, we can find this unshakable propensity of wisdom, in nature, we are not limited to the spoken words of humans throughout the ages, of course they would be telling the story with the creature of their choice (their race, gender and religion of human) in the center, but that hardly is anything but a boastful lie, to imagine the world as only full to the extent of that one component. Humans can’t exist without the functions of the ecosystem on planet earth, we are hardly important.

We in fact, are so weak, so fragile, so small in the grand scheme of things. To believe humans are at the center of the stage above and beyond all other life. It’s the same mindset as the belief that the Sun rotated around the Earth, claiming everything is only about us. So arrogant, so boastful, so untrue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfP-XBUbMvs

Well I tried veganism and it didn’t work

I was actually the most unhealthy that I’ve ever been on a vegan diet. It was a really hard decision

to veer away from plant foods, but not everyone can be healthy on a vegan diet.  Nice thought though.———————————————————

Here is my response to someone who said something along those lines….

 I guess I disagree with the statement that it wouldn’t work for everyone, it’s like saying, not all pandas thrive on plants.. of course they do! Of course you had your personally experience, and that section of time that you chose particular vegan foods did not work for you, and I can whole heartedly respect that. I’ve personally been on a vegan array of foods in certain periods of my vegan eating, that did not suit me. However with experimentation and research, it’s easy to get on track and pick up your health with solely plant foods. Saying veganism doesn’t work for everyone is an unfortunately common fallacy proclaimed by those who haven’t had much exposure to plant based foods and how they work in our bodies, in combination with the assumption that there is only one version of veganism. There are hundreds of versions of veganism, in fact, there are probably as many versions to plant based diets as there are people on them. However if there’s not the adequate intake of a variety of different vegetable material and legumes, and whole foods which is very important, of course it is very possible that there could be nutritional inadequacies. However blaming the plant based diet, is incorrect, and can be misleading since when a plant based diet is done correctly can be the healthiest diets for humans. With more and more doctors becoming vegan and recommending vegan it is becoming easier and easier to learn what foods on a plant based diet supports the health the best. Granted, in this society, it’s more than easy to cave to the society’s perception of plant based and what it means, it’s easy to give up when most others aren’t doing it, don’t know anything about it, and largely are terrified by it. It’s easy to cave to the ideas and the compulsions of the masses.. however it’s healthy, possible and completely doable to leap out and experiment with eating plants only. If it doesn’t work, it’s completely doable and possible to learn, research and tailor it, until it does. One of my favorite authors is Gabriel Cousens. he is in full support of the myriad of ways to be a plant based eater. He talks about how some do better with more fats, some do better with no fats, and on and on. I love this approach because, through his guidance, I felt less guilty about experimenting on my own, and trusting the process. Now I’m three years in, and couldn’t be happier. I hardly get sick and when I do, it’s nowhere to the degree of illness that I would be when I was vegetarian. Anyway, thought I’d share. All the best. Only here to encourage and support.

 

But its human nature

“To many animals, nature is a very cruel, harsh, and unforgiving experience. The planet “Mother Earth” has always been Predators vs Prey. As humans it seems like we have just followed these rules of nature… ”

well its the story that’s been perpetuated the most by society, yet the story that has been painted by a multitude of philosophers and scientists before us is a little more broad, there is also a large amount of cooperation, animals that work together to make life easier for the both of them. There is also compassionate acts by humans and animals with no apparent survival reason. — Or maybe it’s just less on the surface since cooperation among groups can ultimately lead to better survival. Obviously predator and prey relationships are apparent, however there are also many other types of relationships, detrivores, scavengers, photosynthesizing organisms, chemoheterotrophs — organisms that survive off of all sorts of chemicals — sulfur, nitrogen etc. microorganisms are the oldest creatures on the planet, and have much better adapted themselves to all environments than we have. We have largely followed a slim pickings set of traits found in nature. Namely, depleting resources faster than they are able to regenerate at the cost of our own value of life. In addition to, naming ourselves top predator. These both are choices, not facts or necessities for being human on earth. Yet it is definitely a necessity for a diversity of relationships and a wise use of resources for the survival of certain organisms on the planet.

But we are omnivorous…

“We are omnivorous — our teeth are adapted to both vegetables and meat, and our jaw is more adapted to chewing meat than gorilla jaws are.  It is true that many omnivores eat very little meat, but humans have been cooking food for at least 250,000 years, and we have been using bows to hunt for at least 18,000 years. There were thousands of hunter-gatherer societies where hunting was a major source of calories before the rise of Western civilization.  Eskimo’s, Inuits, and all other Arctic tribes subsisted on primarily meat, getting their vitamin C from whale blubber. The tribes of North America were largely hunters, especially in the plains and mountains where there were buffalo.  There is evidence that mammoths and other large animals were hunted (admittedly over-hunted) around the world over 10,000 years ago. The Batek of Malaysia, the Pygmies of the Congo, the Mongolians, and most other societies I have researched in my anthropological studies have subsisted largely on meat-based calories.”

The interesting thing about studying these primitive societies, is that the ones who often ate mostly meat seem to be also linked with the shortest life span and the same health problems. Eskimos regularly live to about the age of 40. Of course with modern medicine, we aren’t quite in the same situation as Eskimos, as now we have treatments for a lot of the problems meat can cause. Like high cholesterol and the like.  However, what I do find interesting is the large amount of people who have reversed many illnesses through largely well-balanced plant based diets. One of my favorite books on long living groups of indigenous people is a “healthy at a 100” by John Robins.
we have spent a considerable amount of time as species eating cooked foods and the like and developing all sorts adaptations to the foods we eat.  But is it possible that there is a more efficient way of eating for our bodies?  I think the most interesting argument I’ve seen showing that our bodies are more alike that of a mostly vegetarian omnivore, are the ones looking at our digestive system. Since we have a long gut, like other primates, it allows for us to obtain the nutrients from plants, yet from meat and milk tend to go bad through this system, and our bodies need to create more acidity in order to buffer the microorganisms from getting us sick. Excess acidity in our bodies lead to things like heart burn, as well as actually leaching calcium from our bones.  Milk isn’t actually a good source of calcium– in fact its been shown the opposite, which is why the countries with the highest milk consumption also have the highest osteoporosis rates.  And the countries which have the highest consumption of green foods for the calcium source with little to no diary — most asian countries minus India, have little to no osteoporosis issues.  (An interesting study done on animal protein and cancer called the china study — is one of the biggest nutritional studies ever done and they found some really interesting correlations)

But vegans have nutritional deficiencies

“I don’t like vegan’s proselytizing. I am firm in my convictions. I don’t believe in unnecessary harm to animals, but killing animals is necessary because vegans have nutritional deficiencies”

I agree that respect needs to go both ways on all ends of the spectrum. We all human, and we are all doing the best we possibly know. For vegans, the anger, the sadness is so real and so vibrant for the use and misuse of animals it can be difficult to not judge and feel hopeless with the society at large with how we mistreat animals. For non vegans, as there is a strong persistence within them that directs their actions. Blaming anyone is certainly unhelpful. Yet the main issue, is that a lot of the stances for non veganism is unfortunately unfounded, the more research involved, the more likely someone will be drawn to veganism. I’m curious to understand why killing for food is allowed when there is also a strong moral for animals to not suffer unnecessarily. According to the above person, the animal is suffering necessarily when being killed for food because of ‘science’ showing that vegans have ‘vitamin deficiency’. While it can be common that vegans have vitamin deficiency, it’s actually just as common for nonvegans to also have similar plus other vitamin deficiencies, they are just less sensationalized as they are when vegans or vegetarians have problems — that’s because the media in general favors the majority — read this article for more clarity on the topic https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm.

The only possible way to know if your body works ‘better’ on animal protein is to actually try plant protein in place of animal protein for a minimum of 3 months to a year, to see if there is a difference. And not just any vegan diet, because a person can just eat potato chips — while it may be considered vegan, it’s not going to be healthy. (All of these guys found that a healthy vegan diet helped them outperform their competitors http://www.greatveganathletes.com/) Best action is to follow a committed vegan doctor, such as, Joel Fuhrman (his book: Nutritarian Handbook is awesome) who has personally helped many individuals reverse many life style diseases through a healthy vegan diet. His guidelines as follows: Best guidelines from Dr. Joel Fuhrman:::
1. Eat a large salad every day.
2. Eat at least a half cup serving of beans/legumes in soup,salad or another dish once daily.
3. Eat at least three fresh fruits a day, especially berries, pomegranate seeds, cherries, plums, oranges.
4. Eat at least one ounce of raw nuts and seeds a day.
5. Eat at least one large (double size) serving of green vegetables daily, either raw, steamed or in soups and stews.
Also this guy’s video series is amazing. He takes the listener/ viewer step by step through all of the studies and that actually show humans consuming plant based protein healthier than those humans eating animal protein. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6j75BDq6DQ His whole series is brilliant and all can be sourced back to original science.
“Numerous studies have shown that poor meal planning is the cause of nutritional deficiencies in vegetarian diets, not the absence of animal foods. Well-balanced vegetarian diets have been approved for all stages of life, including pregnant and lactating women, children, adolescents, the elderly population, and competitive athletes.” http://www.medicinenet.com/vegetarian_and_vegan_diet/page2.ht
So as it’s true that it’s not a lack of animal protein that causes nutritional deficiencies, rather a lack in proper planning of eating, which can be the case for non veg eaters as well (happens all of the time, not eating enough vegetables and or fruits, developing colon cancer, breast cancer, diabetes, etc). This makes eating meat not the primary reason to keeping one healthy, rather an adequate meal plan with or without meat, that then makes the decision to allow animals to suffer for the sake of animal protein in fact unnecessary. I think this is the point that most are trying to get across to the general population. Because as a whole, humans are caring, compassionate people, we want to make the right and healthful decisions. And if right and healthful could also be, extending a compassionate hand to a suffering animal, whose species routinely ends up abused, and killed cruelly for the sake of protein that can be attained from elsewhere. Wouldn’t it make sense that as a species we would choose to not allow the suffering to happen unnecessarily?