But why do you want to change me and my values…

I never said that. If clean water, clean air, full forests, healthy bodies, enough food for everyone are not part of your value system, that’s fine, you are the only person who can define your value system. There is nothing really more to talk about. I share about our food choices and their effect on our surroundings because yes, it matters to me. What we eat collectively creates the world we live in. People will make their choices, as long as people are aware of the consequences, that’s really my aim in having these discussions. My goal isn’t to change your value systems, my goal is share just how destructive some of our habits actually are. That’s it. I’m all for people having homes and employment despite what they eat. Absolutely. Everyone deserves a fair shot. I just also think that information should be spread about how our choices affect others.

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But humans are at the center of the universe

It’s unfortunate but I see this all of the time. People claiming that human beings are the apex of all of creation.

So ultimately we humans believe that animals are resources, how is it then, that most find animal factory farming monstrous then?

Some claim humans have been using animals since the beginning of time, and why should we ever think about changing?

Do you really believe that if we have always used animals for, food, shelter, clothing, that that justifies it as sane or good? In the face currently of ecological collapse on multiple fronts –oceanic and all lands?

Humans have always been at war with one another since as long as we are aware of, does that make war good or sane?

Humans have traditionally had much lower life spans, about half of what we have today, does that make shorter life spans sane or good?

Today, our extent to animal manipulation is much more than it ever has been, are you then against this? Animal testing for pharmaceuticals, make-up, house hold products, random experimental designs for ‘science’.

To what extent do you believe animals more resemble plants or rocks than they do humans? To what extent do you believe that animals have no capacity to care for themselves or others or their life? To what extent are Humans more aware, more conscious, more able than animals?

We just happen to be really good with tools, apart from that, I only actually see animals being often times, much more intelligent than us. We are the only species, who has managed to shift the ecosystem so much, that not only are we annihilating our own species, but we are bringing just about every other species down with us. If that isn’t a huge failure of intelligence, I’m not sure what is.

Just because something is weaker than us, I’m not sure how that justifies us, making full use of it. It’s the patriarchal mindset, use what can be used for your own means. Use other races for slaves, because you can, use woman and children for sex and labor without their permission because you can. Use animals for all of your needs, because you can. Use the world and its resources for your needs in excess because you can, Take from the poor, the sick, the helpless and the weak, because they are vulnerable, and it will keep you in power.

This is the mindset of many of the dominant cultures of the world today, They have hidden the messages so cleverly, yet they are still so bold and vibrant since, these are the actions unfortunately much more common among humans than the choice of compassion on this earth.

Our societies have successfully taught humans that this is the normal way, the only way, to gain strength, to gain fortune.

However, what is true compassion, what does living in an ecosphere mean. What is true connection. We live in a world that hardly anyone dare enter, or attempt to understand. We are trapped in the mundane everyday existence of cleaning, working, driving, using our gadgets, absorbing ourselves in made up stories projected onto screens. We are numb. Yet the mystery of the universe, the divine in all creation is here, waiting to be discovered in the minute occurrences that we too often ignore on a daily basis.

Yet, if we choose to listen, if we choose to be present, we can find this unshakable propensity of wisdom, in nature, we are not limited to the spoken words of humans throughout the ages, of course they would be telling the story with the creature of their choice (their race, gender and religion of human) in the center, but that hardly is anything but a boastful lie, to imagine the world as only full to the extent of that one component. Humans can’t exist without the functions of the ecosystem on planet earth, we are hardly important.

We in fact, are so weak, so fragile, so small in the grand scheme of things. To believe humans are at the center of the stage above and beyond all other life. It’s the same mindset as the belief that the Sun rotated around the Earth, claiming everything is only about us. So arrogant, so boastful, so untrue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfP-XBUbMvs

But where does it say that spiritually it’s the best thing to do?

But for clarity: where is it stated that veganism is The Way for humanity? Throughout ages omnivorous people have had great impact on others as spiritual and non-spiritual leaders. As I remember a reading Edgar Cayce gave to a vegetarian woman, she was told by the higher self that “she should keep being vegetarian if her soul asked her, however, being vegetarian is not a spiritual requirement”. ——

This is how I responded, I thought this question was interesting because they were wanting examples of spiritual people who suggested this kind of lifestyle. Which could essentially be anyone. I’ve never actually been asked this question before it almost rather through me off guard.. like oh wait, you don’t want some heavy science journal article?? :

well where is stated that meat eating is the way for humanity? Is it possible that we’ve gotten into a habit that is actually only causing us more harm? There’s also a lot of spiritual documents that do advocate eating plants only. Dr. Gabriel Cousens has studied Essene literature extensively and has been living off of raw foods for over 30 years. His youthful appearance in his 70’s, I think speaks to the strength of eating this way. Maybe there was a time that eating meat made sense for humans. And it’s possible that in some locations among some people, it also makes the most sense, perhaps for inuits in Alaska.. I’m giving an example. Although it’s been documented that even for these people there are health costs associated with this very high meat intake. In terms of spirituality, there are several individuals who do support being vegan in terms of mind and body cleanliness. In doing so you are not contributing to the industrialized suffering of millions of animals, in addition to contribution to the greatest greenhouse gas source, biggest water pollutor, and biggest reason why we are losing our rainforests. Again, the best, easiest source to learn more about this is Cowspiracy: The Sustainability Secret. I’ve been studying this stuff for years, so I was very familiar with it, however this documentary visually makes it very easy to follow and see all the first hand literature and interviews that goes into these facts. But yes, so to name a few.. http://www.erinpavlina.com/…/the-connection-between…/ and http://www.serv-online.org/Meria-Heller.htm and http://thethinkingvegan.com/…/veganism-and-spirituality/ Personally if there is a spiritual teacher who is not vegan. I can’t take them seriously. If Jesus himself came back to planet earth and told people that eating small amounts of meat was okay, I would turn and walk away. For me there is just no justification on a spiritual level that makes it okay, when as a species we can more than thrive on plants alone. There’s a lot of ways we can screw it up. by not getting enough greens or overconsuming fats, sugars, processed foods… or just not enough in general. But I’ve done enough research to know that it’s more than just possible. It saves lives. not only the lives of the animals and the health of the planet, but I’ve seen tumors disapear before my eyes, on ppl taking these foods seriously, I’ve seen my own pre-cancerous cells magically erase themselves from my own lab results after following these practices. I’ve seen my father in law, reduce his medicine by more than half, as a diabetic switching to this lifestyle. I mean I can go on. the miracles are endless. We just have to believe, and let go of this paradigm we’ve been trapped under for so long.

‘Diet is like religion, keep it to yourself’

The problem is that we are all affected by the dietary choices we make. Animal farms contribute more to global warming than any other industry sector including transportation. We are all affected. If you met somebody who ate humans… you probably wouldnt think that was a personal choice would you? Animals may not be humans, but like humans they feel pain, they have complex social orders and natural inclinations. If we have a choice to promote the wellbeing of those who have little choice in the matter, that goes a long way in making the world a more peaceful place. A little less suffering. It’s not a matter of ‘holier than thou’, because of who anyone is… it’s a matter of each individual being able to make a choice in every moment to create a little less suffering on planet earth. And that option is open to everyone, no one is excluded from that option, therefore no one is better than anyone, because the potential of making the world a little more peaceful exists in everybody. Believing that humanity doesn’t have room for improvement or believing that no human can take choices to promote peace, basically affirms that cruelty and less peace is a personal choice of those individuals. I guess for me I tend to believe that this really isn’t the case for most people. Maybe there’s a disconnect from those who promote messages of peace and those who ultimately want less suffering. This stuff though isn’t just made up, with no substance, there are many actually studies that have been done correlating pollution rates, factory farms, nutrition from dairy and meat and diseases, animal intelligence and animal cruelty … don’t take anyones word for this stuff. The best that can be done.. is actually research it.. .google it… look up articles for this stuff… It’s amazing the information available and actually how this isn’t a religion, it’s a logical approach to working with natural systems. “Cowspiracy” is a really great documentary, along with “Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead” “Forks over Knives” … This stuff is really inspiring and is life changing. Personally I’ve reversed my own challenges with cancer cells,acne, low energy, and other illnesses through this lifestyle

But humans are spiritual vessels

This was a post on Facebook by someone who thought, as “humans are the vessels in which we as spirits and energy can learn and grow and eventually ascend from”

And this was his justification for eating meat.

This was my response to him,

So you think human beings are special because, “spiritually we are the vessels in which we as spirits and energy can learn and grow and eventually ascend from” — how can you absolutely know that this is true? Do all humans have this capacity, or are some humans not able to, what about humans who are incapacitated, or have developmental disorders, where growth perhaps is limited. What of them? are they not fit for being vessels, could you justify killing them? What about those beings who we go to war against, or the ones who commit crimes — do we put them in prison because there is no shot for them at all to grow and ascend? Are the countries we fight, are all of those people, not chosen for spirit, and therefore we can justify killing them? Tell me how you are 100% certain that animals are not vessels for spirits and energy and can learn to grow and ascend from? How can you know for sure. Give me hard evidence, that animals do not have this capacity? Do you have it? I have personally lived around many different kinds of animals since I was a child, every chicken had a unique personality — even as they had the same mom, they lived on the same farm, they were raised exactly the same way — why were they different? I was raised on a farm, and I can’t name one animal that didn’t have a very distinct personality than all of the rest. Allowing yourself the opportunity to get to know animals, and in treating them kindly, they open up. Some beautiful documentaries that address some of these subjects are, “Speciesism” and “Animal communication”.

But aren’t animals made for us to eat??

David French– “If you read the bible correctly, it states that before the flood, everyone was vegan. God said after the flood “you may now partake of the animals”. This was only meant to be temporary, because after all, God destroyed all vegetation. So, meat was the only source of food for humans until vegetation grew again.

There are also several quotes saying “do not be like the gluttonous eaters of meat”.”

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“If you can’t determine right from wrong you lack empathy, not religion.”

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Romans 14:21–“It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.”

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Mel Fioravanti –“As a linguistic student, I can tell you one thing. The word used for meat used to mean “food” in general. It then later developed to mean what we know now, but it has never been adjusted.”

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Jessica Saravia-Dean–“29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
” “Genesis 1:29″
This was the original plan”

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Sadie Marie Whitmer— “I simply say “being vegan is a choice, just like believing in god…..lets no go there.”

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Paul said “everything is permissible but not everything is lawful for me”

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Elijah Aust –“I know this because I used to be into comparative religion, now not so much….. 

One of the most respected Bible scholars ever, Rev. V.A. Holmes-Gore (that learned the Bible in all of it’s original languages) researched the use of the word “meat” in the New Testament Gospels. He traced it’s meaning to the original Greek. He first published on this in the late 1940s.

He discovered that the nineteen Gospel references to “meat” were complete mistranslations. Accurately translated they would be:

Broma: 4 references: “food”

Brosis: 4 references:
“the act of eating”

Phago: 3 references:
“to eat”

Brosimos: 1 reference: “That which may be eaten”

Trophe: 6 references: “nourishment”

Prosphagon: 1 reference:
“anything to eat”

As everyone knows the popular authorized version of John 21:5 reads, “Have ye any meat?”, this is incorrect. Correctly translated it reads, “Have ye anything to eat?”

So my point is that the Bible has been translated, re-translated, re-interpreted, & modified as kings, emperors, & priests saw fit. Humans are fallible, since we’re all controlled by ego. The more any of us rely on anything a human has touched, the more we follow that person’s ego & not our heart.

Let’s pretend the Bible is translated correctly, then how can Old Testament verses like this be ignored:

“And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be
for meat.” – Genesis 1:29

“To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? Said the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams,
and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of goats. When ye spread forth your
hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear, for your hands are full of blood.” – Isaiah 1:11,15

“He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man.” – Isaiah 66:3

“And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of strangers who sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of
blood; I will even set My face against that soul that eateth blood.” – Leviticus 17:10

All that being said, I’m not into the bible…. The word for conscience in sanskrit is paramatma. This word means: in every situation the answer that your heart says is truly right, is the answer that God wants you to choose, not what a book may or may not say. My heart says that if God made life, & endowed sentient beings with the magical gift of feeling & emotion, equally as much as humans, then why would He desire that we willingly abuse that gift in other beings. It seems to be an affront to His creation; an attempt at becoming secondhand gods ourselves, as we lord over those “below” us.

All sentient beings fear pain & love compassion. Jesus is the most sentient being, therefore he must love compassion the most. How then could he possibly find fault in not supporting lives of torture & slaughter?”

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Stephanie Linton — “As a Christian vegan what I tell people is that originally there was supposed to be no death in the world that is why God gave us the Garden of Eden. it was once that sin was brought into the world that God gave us farm animals.”

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Sara Jenivieve— “Respond with verses about how to beat your slave or killing rape victims”

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Michelle Compton— “As a Latter-Day Saint we follow a code of health given through modern revelation by a prophet named Joseph Smith in 1833. Many Latter-Day Saints find joy in a vegan /vegetarian lifestyle even raw vegan. This is from the scriptures: 12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine. Doctrine and Covenants 89:12-13″

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Grace Nugget— “Thou shalt not kill. Period. There are no exceptions in the 10 Commandments. Why are others continuing to make excuses for murder.”

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Jennifer Rech “The bible also states that ALL life is sacred and also killing is a sin. even if ur not the one doing the killing, you are still paying for it..”

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Jessica Lynn P— I had a guy quote the whole “dominion” verse to me. I don’t see eat or slaughter in that definition!
Tami Bowen —Dominion when translated from Hebrew means to care for or look over like a King would have dominion for his subjects.
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Derek Mcdow — “Then there’s the oft-cited “lion & lamb” passage from Isaiah 11:
6 The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling[a] together;
and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain.The sense here meaning that in a utopic community of enlightened or devout people, killing will no longer take place even among the biological carnivores. I used to challenge religious christians to aspire for the ideal weather it was before the fall–when humans were believed to be sinless–or when the pre-edenic state will be restored. A vegan (non-killing) lifestyle embodies a principle of “holiness”. “
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Hannah Bishop” In genesis, it says we were made to be vegan. Daniel and his brothers were thrown to the lions for refusing to eat meat and the angels protected them”
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Laurin Wolf “Even if the Bible were an accurate collection of stories…. Man’s role was to have dominion over the animals, not to dominate them. They were to act as guardians on the Earth. It also says many times in the Bible that meat was to be consumed sparingly and with gratitude, only in times of need or famine. If you’re going to quote it, you can’t pick an choose which parts you acknowledge and which you ignore.”
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Jessica Lynn P “I don’t care what anybody believes in. You can’t truly be a good person when you see these beautiful animals suffer and do absolutely nothing about it. Really makes me miserable”
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Further Reading:::

jesus

holyshit