But vitamin B12 is only found in animal products!

Bacteria are not classified scientifically as animals. Hence it is a scientific inaccuracy to say that B12 is an animal product. In our modern world, yes we are super hygienic and sometimes getting that bacteria source needs to be paid attention to. If the only way to get a certain vitamin naturally was from kicking a small child would you do it, or would take a supplement so you didn’t have to kick the small child? This of course isn’t the case with veganism, because we can actually get vitamin b12 naturally without supplements, but if it’s that much of a concern for vitb12, supplements are very easy to get. It’s also a vitamin that stores very well in the body over time. They say that deficiencies often don’t even begin to develop until after 5 years. And some evidence actually questions our need for this vitamin altogether. Check it out. It’s all interesting stuff. I personally take a b12 supplement because it’s easy and actually tastes good — i get the chewable kind

http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/12/vitamin-b12-and-human-nutritional.html

http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/why-we-should-not-eat-meat/the-vitamin-b12-hoax.html

 

Lactose intolerance isn’t common, milking cows is good for them, and veggies are bad

“Only 2% of the western population is lactose intolerant. Milking the cows actually helps the cow to stay healthy. The majority of GMO products actually are the vegetables, replacing the source of calcium with vegetables won’t make it GMO free.”
The above passage was a comment made on fb, I responded what is found below…
Actually, “Approximately 65 percent of the human population has a reduced ability to digest lactose after infancy. Lactose intolerance in adulthood is most prevalent in people of East Asian descent, affecting more than 90 percent of adults in some of these communities.
” — http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/lactose-intolerance Milking the cows can only help the cow ‘stay healthy’ if the cow has been bred in a way to have unnaturally large utters and/ or is injected with hormones to have larger utters, and or must also have the following conditions met, the cow has been, 1)impregnated 2) and baby has been taken away. Under all of these circumstances the cow could be in distress with large utters, and no calf to relieve her. In this situation it may make sense to help ‘relieve’ the cow of her milk. However, this is an entirely man made situation. You would never make the same argument for a human, claiming that humans needed to be milked by anyone other than their baby because it ‘kept them healthy’ this is not factual. The majority of GMO’s are actually cotton, corn and soybeans. These are the items we need in the largest quantity hence make sense for companies to gain profit off of making GMO’s, there are some GMOS also among vegetables and fruits, but that can all be avoided if buying organic. Ultimately those who eat the most corn and soy often happen to be animals that we consume or consume their byproducts. So herbicides and pesticides that are within these plants, actually become that much more concentrated in the animal itself. For example it takes about 20 lbs of plant food to produce 1lb of cow flesh. https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=29892 That means that whatever pesticides are in that 20lbs of plant food, is now concentrated in that 1lb of animal flesh. So to say that having milk is better than vegetables is not accurate in terms of reducing your toxin intake. Especially in places for example in India where there is little to no regulation on what goes into milk to preserve it. It is often trucked for hours in the hot sun, and in order for it not to go bad, it’s a common for farmers to pour bleach in the milk. There have been plenty of articles to come out explaining all of the contaminants found in milk. In addition, vegetables contain many micronutrients, and antioxidants that help protect the body’s immune system against bacteria and other contaminants. Milk is largely devoid of these beneficial qualities. It also has too much protein to be considered a good source of calcium since, it takes large quantities of calcium to digest protein. http://saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/ your best source of calcium actually is dark leafy greens.

But humans are at the center of the universe

It’s unfortunate but I see this all of the time. People claiming that human beings are the apex of all of creation.

So ultimately we humans believe that animals are resources, how is it then, that most find animal factory farming monstrous then?

Some claim humans have been using animals since the beginning of time, and why should we ever think about changing?

Do you really believe that if we have always used animals for, food, shelter, clothing, that that justifies it as sane or good? In the face currently of ecological collapse on multiple fronts –oceanic and all lands?

Humans have always been at war with one another since as long as we are aware of, does that make war good or sane?

Humans have traditionally had much lower life spans, about half of what we have today, does that make shorter life spans sane or good?

Today, our extent to animal manipulation is much more than it ever has been, are you then against this? Animal testing for pharmaceuticals, make-up, house hold products, random experimental designs for ‘science’.

To what extent do you believe animals more resemble plants or rocks than they do humans? To what extent do you believe that animals have no capacity to care for themselves or others or their life? To what extent are Humans more aware, more conscious, more able than animals?

We just happen to be really good with tools, apart from that, I only actually see animals being often times, much more intelligent than us. We are the only species, who has managed to shift the ecosystem so much, that not only are we annihilating our own species, but we are bringing just about every other species down with us. If that isn’t a huge failure of intelligence, I’m not sure what is.

Just because something is weaker than us, I’m not sure how that justifies us, making full use of it. It’s the patriarchal mindset, use what can be used for your own means. Use other races for slaves, because you can, use woman and children for sex and labor without their permission because you can. Use animals for all of your needs, because you can. Use the world and its resources for your needs in excess because you can, Take from the poor, the sick, the helpless and the weak, because they are vulnerable, and it will keep you in power.

This is the mindset of many of the dominant cultures of the world today, They have hidden the messages so cleverly, yet they are still so bold and vibrant since, these are the actions unfortunately much more common among humans than the choice of compassion on this earth.

Our societies have successfully taught humans that this is the normal way, the only way, to gain strength, to gain fortune.

However, what is true compassion, what does living in an ecosphere mean. What is true connection. We live in a world that hardly anyone dare enter, or attempt to understand. We are trapped in the mundane everyday existence of cleaning, working, driving, using our gadgets, absorbing ourselves in made up stories projected onto screens. We are numb. Yet the mystery of the universe, the divine in all creation is here, waiting to be discovered in the minute occurrences that we too often ignore on a daily basis.

Yet, if we choose to listen, if we choose to be present, we can find this unshakable propensity of wisdom, in nature, we are not limited to the spoken words of humans throughout the ages, of course they would be telling the story with the creature of their choice (their race, gender and religion of human) in the center, but that hardly is anything but a boastful lie, to imagine the world as only full to the extent of that one component. Humans can’t exist without the functions of the ecosystem on planet earth, we are hardly important.

We in fact, are so weak, so fragile, so small in the grand scheme of things. To believe humans are at the center of the stage above and beyond all other life. It’s the same mindset as the belief that the Sun rotated around the Earth, claiming everything is only about us. So arrogant, so boastful, so untrue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfP-XBUbMvs

Well I tried veganism and it didn’t work

I was actually the most unhealthy that I’ve ever been on a vegan diet. It was a really hard decision

to veer away from plant foods, but not everyone can be healthy on a vegan diet.  Nice thought though.———————————————————

Here is my response to someone who said something along those lines….

 I guess I disagree with the statement that it wouldn’t work for everyone, it’s like saying, not all pandas thrive on plants.. of course they do! Of course you had your personally experience, and that section of time that you chose particular vegan foods did not work for you, and I can whole heartedly respect that. I’ve personally been on a vegan array of foods in certain periods of my vegan eating, that did not suit me. However with experimentation and research, it’s easy to get on track and pick up your health with solely plant foods. Saying veganism doesn’t work for everyone is an unfortunately common fallacy proclaimed by those who haven’t had much exposure to plant based foods and how they work in our bodies, in combination with the assumption that there is only one version of veganism. There are hundreds of versions of veganism, in fact, there are probably as many versions to plant based diets as there are people on them. However if there’s not the adequate intake of a variety of different vegetable material and legumes, and whole foods which is very important, of course it is very possible that there could be nutritional inadequacies. However blaming the plant based diet, is incorrect, and can be misleading since when a plant based diet is done correctly can be the healthiest diets for humans. With more and more doctors becoming vegan and recommending vegan it is becoming easier and easier to learn what foods on a plant based diet supports the health the best. Granted, in this society, it’s more than easy to cave to the society’s perception of plant based and what it means, it’s easy to give up when most others aren’t doing it, don’t know anything about it, and largely are terrified by it. It’s easy to cave to the ideas and the compulsions of the masses.. however it’s healthy, possible and completely doable to leap out and experiment with eating plants only. If it doesn’t work, it’s completely doable and possible to learn, research and tailor it, until it does. One of my favorite authors is Gabriel Cousens. he is in full support of the myriad of ways to be a plant based eater. He talks about how some do better with more fats, some do better with no fats, and on and on. I love this approach because, through his guidance, I felt less guilty about experimenting on my own, and trusting the process. Now I’m three years in, and couldn’t be happier. I hardly get sick and when I do, it’s nowhere to the degree of illness that I would be when I was vegetarian. Anyway, thought I’d share. All the best. Only here to encourage and support.

 

but vegan products wouldn’t exist without the animal product version they were trying to imitate

This conversation came up on fb as someone was arguing that if the FDA wanted to allow the regulation that  ‘just mayo’ should not be allowed to exist labelled that because the original recipe of mayonnaise contains whipped eggs, that they should do it.

It’s not completely true that vegan versions of things would only exist if the animal version existed too. Did you know that cooked jackfruit has a texture and taste very similar to pulled pork? We just happen to compare jackfruit to pulled pork because most ppl have had pulled pork before they ever had a chance to try jackfruit. So your right, it’s a form of semantics that is helpful, especially when a meat, dairy and egg culture is most of what people’s foundation is in cooking. But in my mind, we modify meat and dairy much more to resemble plants than we do the other way around. separating every body part, separating fats, adding sugar and salt, fermenting, drying, cooking, pounding, smashing, churning, seasoning… ultimately meat is meat, milk is milk.. if we all ate them in their natural state, raw, and directly from the animal, I’d imagine a lot more people would automatically be more if not entirely plant based, and the variety of milk and meat would be almost negligible except perhaps for a few aquatic species. Yet we don’t consume animal products in their natural state, modifications to meat, egg and dairy are beyond normalized in our culture, in fact many of these products do hardly resemble the animal product found in them, in fact most people may not even really realize if they aren’t reading labels how many animal products are in everything. Think of a poptart. This food is sweet, solid, crunchy on the outside, and oozing with fruity filled insides. The sweetness wouldn’t be possible without fruits, the strongest flavor in the poptart wouldn’t be possible without fruits. The crunchiness texture is more like a plant food– and is largely made of plant foods, milk is liquid. Yet milk is an ingredient in that food, and that food isn’t made to taste like milk. If we take mayo– sure maybe the original recipe was whipped eggs. Yet whipped coconut milk can make a very similar texture to this. But what makes mayo, mayo… the sweet, yet salty, creamy based sauce. The largest ingredient in mayonnaise today, is actually soybean oil. Mayonnaise doesn’t taste like egg, because they have actually flavored it to taste like plants and minerals — salt, lemon and sugar. Egg is just a filler, in fact it’s a little interesting the we put egg in it in the first place if mayonnaise can be just as easily made without it. And by not using eggs, we are saving greenhouse gasses from entering the atmosphere, effluent from chicken egg farms, brutality to hens and baby chicks, brutality to workers inside of those factories, and cholesterol. The truth is, most meat and dairy hardly resemble the original entirety of that substance or the animal it came from. I don’t know anyone who could tell the difference between raw ground turkey, raw ground lamb, raw ground duck, raw ground dog, or raw ground human…. maybe there would be slight color variations, but ultimately they’d be used pretty similarly. We don’t go vegan because we don’t like the tastes or textures of the foods we grew up with, veganism is an ethical stance. There are 100’s of thousands of plants along with those corresponding fruit and vegetables. There is such a wide variety of tastes and textures within fruits alone, yet we hardly make use of a few species since somehow we’ve gotten to the space in time where our societies largely eat animal based products. At this point it’s unfortunately most of what we know about food, there are very few recipes that most ppl are familiar with that don’t contain animal products. i guess ultimately in my mind it shouldn’t matter if a company has slightly tweaked a name. Since companies have been doing it since the beginning. personally it’s much easier if a product that resembles another product can have a similar name so I know what recipes I can substitute it for. If someone wanted a ranch dressing, but it happened to be made with completely different ingredients, yet it was also possibly cheaper than the original ranch dressing… they wouldn’t know to buy the other ranch dressing if it didn’t have a similar name. If the FDA made that kind of a regulation that foods could not have similar names to each other, it would be slightly chaotic. Many companies would end up having to change many of their product names. Think of how many maple syrups are labelled maple syrup without having actually a trace of real maple syrup inside of it. I guess what’s bothersome about it, is the targeting nature of the egg lobby, when ‘just mayo’ isn’t doing really anything different that any other company has been doing since the beginning.

Vegans think they are more superior and enlightened

It may come across that way, since a message is trying to be conveyed, but think about it this way: everyone is a genius at something. When it comes to an electrician coming to your home to fix some connection, there wouldn’t be judgment as to why they are trying to do this, or explain something to you about how to properly maintain something. Largely, vegan information has been stifled by big business and governments regarding the benefits of a plant based diet in our world and for our health. Just like anyone else who is passionate about a topic, vegans are adamant that this information is a human right, that all humans ought to have access to important information regarding their health and happiness in order to make the best choices to what fits their values best. A lot of people are pretty disgusted to see the cruelty we commit to other members of planet earth, as well as our tax money going into subsidies that ultimately add to lack of environmental regulation of CAFOs and the pollution which regularly flows out of them. There’s no doubt in my mind that you are a genius at something, and that when people talk to you about that thing, you lighten up, you want to share your experience to improve their understanding in some way. We are all guilty of this. For some reason, information regarding public health, is seen as a threat to the patterns and habits we’ve developed over a lifetime. It doesn’t help to shoot down the messenger… the problems will remain. Whether or not anyone speaks about this stuff… we are continually affected by it. In ways of pollution, in ways of health care costs, in ways of cruelty to beings who have not done any action directly against us.

But it’s only natural…

“I realize that saying “this is how it has always been” does not constitute an argument in itself.  However, it does support the thesis that it is natural, and it also counters the suggestion that vegetarianism is “more natural.”  I don’t think one or the other is most natural. It looks like humans were mostly vegetarian before 2.5 millions years ago, and there has always been a great deal of diversity in diets worldwide.  I would not argue that humans “need” meat or that a vegan diet is unnatural.  The human body is incredibly adaptive diet-wise.”

The vegan rebuttal:

Sure people have been surviving off it for thousands of years, but again, is it necessary?